- Last week, I sat down with personal finance guru Suze Orman to discuss her new book and her path to success.
- She told me that I should stop buying coffee — she said I'm "peeing $1 million" down the drain that I should be investing in a Roth IRA.
- When it comes to burnout and working long hours, she said you can change your attitude, and to think of it as something you need to do. And she knows this because she did it, too.
- She lives on a private island in the Bahamas with her partner, and only sleeps for four hours a day.
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As a millennial/Gen-Z cusper, I couldn't pass up the opportunity to ask Suze Orman about some of our generation's favorite topics in a recent interview: burnout, astrology, and, of course, iced coffee.
You may recall how the best-selling author and personal finance guru set social media aflame when she infamously said that 20-somethings like myself were "peeing $1 million down the drain" with our coffee habits. (It's not entirely unwarranted — I worry about how quickly I rack up Starbucks rewards).
But once I was face to face with the personal finance guru, who is promoting her new book, "The Ultimate Retirement Guide for 50+," I couldn't help myself. I looked her straight in the eyes and asked: "I buy a coffee every day. Should I stop doing that?"
Her answer was immediate.
"Yeah. Cause you're peeing $1 million a year down the drain. Okay. $100 a month is a coffee every day or $3 a day, right?" Orman said. (I could not bring myself to tell her how much a mocha or cold brew with oat milk costs in New York.)
That money should be going into a Roth IRA, she said.
"And I know that everybody's attitude [is], But Suze, I work hard for my money. I want to have that one little joy. I get such joy going in and getting a coffee,'" Orman continued. "If you want to pee $1 million over 45 years down the drain — because that's exactly where it goes, because it's not going into a Roth instead — go right ahead and be my guest. But the biggest waste of money ever is to go and buy a Starbucks."
Orman doubled down on her anti-coffee-buying rhetoric, undaunted in the face of think pieces such as "Save $1 Million by Forgoing Coffee and Joy of Any Kind in This Soulless World" and "The Rise of Coffee Shaming." And she had some compelling evidence to back it up: herself.
"I'm a seriously wealthy woman, right? Seriously wealthy. Right? And I've bought maybe three cups of coffee in a Starbucks or a coffee place in my life."
In our half-hour conversation, Orman kept hitting on the same themes. Opportunity is something you create, and it requires a shift in attitude — and yes, it does relate back to abstaining from spending on Starbucks. We covered other hot-button millennial issues, too, ranging from astrological advice to "burnout," and she was consistent throughout.
You should prioritize spending money on needs, not wants, according to Orman. And that includes restaurants, bars, and, of course, coffee shops.
Orman was right: I don't need to spend money on themed drinks or oat milk mochas. But they do, to use the words of another guru, bring me joy. What, then, should the burnout generation spend money on instead of those little happy purchases?
"So what you really should want is to be able to be a multimillionaire when you're older," Orman said. "That's what you should really want."
But what about those who are contending with "burnout," and find solace in their expensive coffees?
"Everybody works long hours. You'll work long hours the rest of your life. Nobody works longer hours than an Oprah or a me," Orman said. "For 10 years, you know, I worked 21 hours a day every single day for 10 years. For 10 years, I never spent more than one day in the same city. You don't become Suze Orman or an Oprah Winfrey or anybody without working 24 hours a day, seven days a week."
Addressing the subject of "burnout," Orman said it comes down to a personal choice. "You can feel that way. Or you can say, 'this is what it takes for me to become who I want to be.' And you can change your attitude." She added that instead of feeling burned out, you can tell yourself, "This is what I need to do. This is what I want to do."
And Orman certainly seems to live by this philosophy. She told me that she now sleeps "maybe" four hours a night — about an hour or so more than she did previously.
Orman said that back when she was only making $400 a month for 7 years, her favorite activity was going to astrologers. But now, she said, she's not going to live in fear because of what someone told her could happen in the future.
Orman, who was a waitress until she was 30, said she knows how the younger generation feels, especially about astrology.
"My favorite pastime was going to astrologers, spending money I didn't have on astrologers way back when," she said.
She would ask them the hard-hitting questions: "Am I going to meet somebody and fall in love? Am I ever going to make money? Am I always just going to be a waitress?"
At that time, she said, her current lifestyle was inconceivable. But it wasn't astrology that turned it around — she said that she created her own opportunity.
"So I don't like knowing my future. I want to create my own future. I don't want somebody telling me what it is that's going to happen to me," Orman said. "I'm going to create what happens to me and whatever happens to me, I'm going to handle."
In Orman's new book, she emphasizes that people should take measures to empower and educate themselves around money — especially when it comes to retirement. For her, the ultimate goal is to "be who you are meant to be." And her own decisions on astrology — and buying coffee — are prime examples.
Orman said she hears frequently from listeners who say that their parents spent all of their money on putting their children through college — and now don't have enough to retire. She said "too many" parents believe that their number one goal should be ensuring that their kids have no student loan debt — and they put off retirement saving as a result.
"Well, you've already blown it, because time is the most important ingredient in any financial freedom recipe," Orman said.
For her, that came only 9 years ago, when she turned 60 years old. She said "you can feel it inside" when it happens — there's a feeling of power and never having to do anything you don't want to.
Before it happened, she said she felt like "everybody wants me to be on this show and that show and give this talk and do that and go here. Then, all of a sudden, I kind of realized I don't have to do that anymore," Orman said. "I have more money than I'll ever spend. I don't need more money. I just need more time. And that's when I retired at 65 and went to live on a private island."
And now, Orman said, she spends most days fishing. But it wouldn't have been possible without her choice to cut out buying coffee and seeking astrological advice, and create what would happen to her.
Orman said she spends 6 to 8 hours every day answering email — but generally after a day spent fishing on her private island.
Orman said her daily schedule consists of waking up at about 5 am and having breakfast with her partner, Kathy "KT" Travis (the duo married in 2010). The two live on a private island in the Bahamas. Orman said they're "avid fisherwomen" and, weather permitting, they'll go out fishing for 7 to 8 hours.
After they fillet the fish, Orman begins the night's work: answering every email that comes in from her Women & Money podcast listeners — which she said can take about 6 to 8 hours. She also records the podcast from the island, which she said takes about an hour a week.
And these aren't lighthearted fan emails.
"These are now older women that are writing in, that have lost their husbands — divorce or death or whatever," Orman said. She told me that this month she's heard from 10 different 35-year-olds whose husbands unexpectedly died — and has answered all of their emails.
These types of emails served as inspiration for her new book, Orman said.
When it came to my economic future, Orman had plenty of advice — and astrology wasn't part of it.
But she did have some parting advice for me as she left: To kick my expensive coffee habit (which apparently we are now tackling together), she said, I would have to go without buying coffee for 21 days. Even the jugs of cold brew I had eyed at Fairway were off the table.
I laughed it off, but her steely look remained me of the potential millions I was "peeing away."
And she told me to expect an email from her in 21 days to check in on my progress.
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